Illuminating the Path to Ragatmika-bhakti

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja
Illuminating the Path to Ragatmika-bhakti
Discussions with the GBC on the book, Raga-Vartma-Candrika [Part 3]
Mathura, India: 1991

[Respected Harikatha Readers,
Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga.
For those of you who did not receive Part 1 and 2, you can find them on www.backtobhaki.com and www.purebhakti.com.
In 1991 Srila Narayana Gosvami Maharaja led several members of the ISKCON GBC discussions on Raga-vartma-candrika, a famous Sanskrit treatise written by Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. Below is the Part 3 in that series of discussions, and we hope to send you the rest, one after another.
Your aspiring servants, the Harikatha Team]

Burijana dasa: Dhanurdhara Maharaja and I were not here the last time you spoke, but we listened to the tape.

Sripad Dhanurdhara Maharaja: But we couldn’t understand from the tape what you were doing. We couldn’t understand your hand-motions.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: The manjaris.

Sripad Dhanurdhara Maharaja: It was about the manjaris. You said, “It is like this.”

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Tamal Krsna Maharaja can describe more than I.

Sripad Dhanurdhara Maharaja: He already told us, but we want to hear it from your realizations.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: You told us that what you were saying was not in any book.

Burijana dasa: My understanding from that example was that the heart of Rupa Manjari is so dedicated to Srimati Radharani that she feels everything Srimati Radharani feels. I also understood by your statement at the end that one must be dedicated to his guru in the same way. Without surrender and without giving one’s heart to the guru, it doesn’t work, especially in raganuga.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: This surrender and complete dedication of the heart to guru is called tadatmya (oneness of heart) in Sanskrit. When an iron rod is placed in fire, the qualities of the fire enter the iron. When fire permeates an iron rod it is the fire that burns other objects; it is not that the iron rod burns other objects; The iron rod may ‘consider,’ “I am fire,” in the sense that the qualities of the iron have become one with the qualities of the fire; it now does the work of fire.
Similarly Sri Rupa Manjari and all the other manjaris are tadatmika (one in heart) with Radha, so the action of Radha becomes the action of all the manjaris. In other words, whatever She realizes is also realized by every manjari; nothing is hidden from them. Some things may be hidden from Her sakhis, but not from Her manjaris.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: So, today you will carry on from where you left off?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Do you want to hear the rest?

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Oh yes, very much. Just from what you have been speaking, it is already so helpful.

Burijana dasa: I would like to have the references for the first two verses.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: The verses are found in Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: I told them three slokas, the first of which is this:

krsnam smaran janam casya prestham nija samihitam
tat tat katha ratas casau kuryad vasam vraje sada

["While remembering Sri Krsna and His beloved associates whom we desire to follow, being fully absorbed in discussions of their pastimes, one should always reside in Vraja. If this is not possible, then one should reside there by mind." (Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.294)]

Have you heard the explanation of that sloka? It refers to remembering Krsna along with His dearmost associates.

And here is the second sloka:

seva sadhaka rupena siddha rupena catra hi
tad bhava lipsuna karya vraja-lokanusaratah

["On this path of raganuga, being charmed by the intense love of Krsna’s beloved Vrajavasis, the sadhaka lives in Vraja under the guidance of those devotees who have taken shelter of the Vrajavasis (like Sri Rupa, Sanatana and Raghunatha dasa Gosvamis), always eager to serve them in his present physical body. And, in the perfected stage of his siddha-rupa, his internally conceived spiritual body suitable for performing prema-seva, he engages in the cherished service of Sri Krsna according to the mood he desires to obtain. In this regard he follows in the footsteps of the eternal residents of Vraja, such as Sri Radhika, Lalita, Visakha, and Sri Rupa Manjari."]

Seva means ‘service.’ Sadhaka-rupena refers to functioning in this world as a practitioner of raganuga-bhakti, and siddha-rupena refers to serving in one’s perfected spiritual body, which is achieved when intense greed arises. By the grace of guru and Krsna, the devotee’s siddha-sarira (spiritual form) is revealed in his inner heart. In this connection it is written in Caitanya-Caritamrta (Madhya-lila 22.157):

mane nija siddha deha koriya bhavana
ratri dine kore vraje krsnera sevana.

["With one’s siddha-sarira, revealed by the mercy of guru, one serves Sri Radha-Krsna Yugala (the Divine Couple) day and night in Vraja.”]

Each and every jiva has an individual spiritual body (siddha-sarira). We also have our own spiritual body, but it has not yet manifested; now it is in a seed stage. Just as an entire tree is contained within the seed of that tree, our full siddha-sarira with all its characteristics now exists in seed-form. However, because we are now bahirmukha, meaning that we have turned away from Krsna, that siddha-sarira is not seen. When, by the grace of guru and Gauranga our greed sprouts and subsequently fully blossoms, the siksa-guru or diksa-guru may show us our siddha-sarira. First, he will tell us what our constitutional spiritual identity is, as we see in Jaiva Dharma that the guru of Vrajanatha and Vijaya-Kumara told each of them the nature of their individual spiritual forms.
Our siddha-sarira is now in a latent condition. Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura tells that in one life it can be revealed, but I see that for us it is many births away. He has simply showed the path.
When Vrajanatha and Vijaya Kumara took diksa, they saw Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu with all His parikaras (associates) standing with Him. At the time of our diksa we were unable to see them, but they are fully visible to a realized soul. This is real diksa.
We have entered in the class of diksa, but our diksa is not complete. We are in class now. May God and guru shower their grace upon us so that we can take full diksa, meaning divya-jnana (receiving actual transcendental knowledge) and divya-darsana (receiving spiritual vision). Divya-jnana implies divya-darsana, as we see with Vijaya Kumara and Vrajanatha. They had darsana of the Lord at the time of their diksa initiation, and they at once fainted.
After that, they took all necessary siksa in Navadvipa from Sri Raghunatha dasa Babaji. Then, and on his order, they went to Puri where they met Vakresvara Pandita’s disciple Sri Gopala-guru Gosvami for further inquiries and siksa.
Gopal-guru Gosvami is a raganuga Vaisnava and is one of the eight principal sakhis. Having realized that Vrajanatha was in sakhya-bhava and that Vijaya Kumara was in gopi- or manjari-bhava, he revealed to them their identities. He was so merciful that he called them one at a time and told them, “You are a cowherd friend of Krsna,” and “You are a maidservant of Srimati Radhika.”
He gave both of them the asta-dasaksara (eighteen syllable) gopala-mantra. Dasya, sakhya, vatsalya, and madhura-bhavas are all found in this mantra; it nourishes and supports every rasa. [Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu received from His Gurudeva the dasaksara-mantra, which is “gopi-janavallabhaya svaha.” When “klim krsnaya govindaya” precedes “gopi-janavallabha svaha,” it becomes asta-dasaksara, an eighteen-syllable mantra. –ed]

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: You said that Gopala-guru Gosvami gave the mantra to both Vrajanatha and Vijaya Kumara, and you said that this one mantra is for all rasas: dasya, sakhya, and madhurya.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Everything is there in the mantra klim krsnaya govindaya gopi-janavallabhaya svaha, meaning that the rasas of all jivas are supported by it.
But there is one thing to consider. Krsna (krsnaya) is the Deity for one in dasya and sakhya-rasa. For that devotee, the name Gopi-janavallabha (gopi-janavallabhhaya) is the adjective describing Krsna’s qualities; i.e., it qualifies the first name.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Krsnaya.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Krsnaya. Who is Krsna? A devotee in dasya-rasa considers, “He is my master and I am His servant.” Such a devotee thinks that Krsna is Gopi-janavallabha in a general way.
Krsna is the prominent name for those in sakhya-rasa as well; such devotees stress on Krsna or Govinda. However, those who have gopi-bhava, or manjari-bhava, focus on Gopi-janavallabha, and the other two words, krsnaya and govindaya, will be adjectives of gopi-janavallabhaya.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: What about those in vatsalya-rasa?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Vatsalya follows the same principle.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: They focus on Krsna?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: They focus on Krsna as the Deity with whom they are related. Everyone with vatsalya-bhava knows in an ordinary way that the gopis love Krsna, but they have no …

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Idea.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: They have an idea of that love, but no experience. Idea and experience are not the same. Devotees with vatsalya-bhava do not know that all the young gopis engage in intimate loving affairs with Krsna, and the sakhas also do not know the nature of those exchanges.
For one with greed like the manjaris or gopis, ‘go’ in this mantra will refer to the gopis. He meditates that “Govinda gives so much ananda (pleasure) to the gopis. Such a devotee will not contemplate other meanings. And he thinks, “By His appearance with five flower arrows (His smiling, His flute-playing, His beautiful cheeks, His eyebrows, and His side-long glances), Krsna is immensely attractive.” In this way, the two other names will support the name Gopi-janavallabha. Thus, the devotee with madhurya-bhava will see the other names as adjectives of that name with whom he is related.
Practically everyone in our sampradaya stresses on Gopi-janavallabha. By the grace of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, those who come to this sampradaya are mainly of gopi-bhava. Some may be of other rasas, like Srivasa Thakura, Murari Gupta, Anupama, and others like them.
Thus, Vrajanatha and Vijaya Kumara received the same mantra, although their siddha-dehas (spiritual bodies) were in separate rasas. Vijaya Kumara saw his Gurudeva as a manifestation of Lalita, and Vrajanatha saw him as a manifestation of Baladeva Prabhu or Subala.

It can happen like this. Guru gives training for serving under the guidance of Lalita and Visakha in madhura-rasa. Rupa Manjari, who is Radhika’s prana-sakhi (in the group of Her most intimate maidservants), also gives training in all the services of Radhika’s maidservants. She does so not as a guru, but as a very intimate bosom friend. In madhura-rasa, everyone has to go to Rupa Manjari for training in order to serve as a manjari. We can see our guru as a manifestation of Rupa Manjari, not as Rupa Manjari herself. Our vision of guru should not be mayavada. You understand?

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Can you please explain that point?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: We should see our Gurudeva as a manifestation of Rupa Manjari; that is quite proper. This is what is meant by saying that Gopala Guru Gosvami was seen as Lalita and also as Subala. It means that he is their manifestation, just as one can see Narayana, Vamana, and all other incarnations in Krsna. Anyone can see his guru in this way, according to one’s inner bhava, as a manifestation. Otherwise, seeing him directly as Rupa Manjari will be mayavada (impersonalism); it is essential to always keep mayavada very far away.
Here in this verse, seva-sadhaka-rupena means that one externally performs service as Rupa Gosvami did. What did he do?

sankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih kalavasani-krtau
nidrahara-viharakadi-vijitau catyanta-dinau ca yau
radha-krsna-guna-smrter madhurimanandena sammohitau
vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau
(Sad Gosvamyastakam 6)

["I worship the Six Gosvamis, who passed all their time in chanting the holy names, singing songs, and offering dandavat-pranama, thereby humbly fulfilling their vow to complete a fixed number daily. In this way they utilized their valuable lives and conquered over eating, sleeping, and other such pleasures. Always very meek and humble, they became enchanted in divine rapture from remembering Sri Radha-Krsna’s sweet qualities."]

Sometimes he would go to Radha Kunda, sometimes to Govardhana, and sometimes to Nandagram. In Nandagaon he would sometimes go to Ter Kadamba, and sometimes he would spend one day at Uddhava Kyari, Nanda Baithak, Kokilavana, or Javat. He visited all these dearmost places.
He always liked to be in Javat, because Srimati Radhika, Rupa Manjari, and all of Radhika’s friends used to live there. At night they would go from there to meet with Krsna in Sanket, Seva Kunja, and many other places, and at midday they would meet at Radha Kunda. Radha Kunda holds some greater importance than all other places, because the pastimes there take place in the daytime, with only Srimati Radhika’s gana (group).

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Her gana means Her svapaksa-sakhis (the gopis of Her own party)

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Only the svapaksa gopis can come there. The vipaksa gopis (those in the rival party) and tatastha gopis (those in the neutral party and who have some inclination to the rival party) are not allowed, nor can…

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Nanda and Yasoda.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: They never come there.
In this way, sadhaka-rupena refers to following the Six Gosvamis, especially Rupa Gosvami, and siddha-rupena refers to following Rupa Gosvami in his siddha form as Rupa Manjari. As a sadhaka, Rupa Gosvami comes in a male form, as Rupa Gosvami, and in his siddha-svarupa (spiritual form in Goloka Vrndavana) he is Rupa Manjari. What services does Rupa Manjari perform?

tambularpana pada mardana payo danabhisaradhibhir
vrndaranya-mahervarim priyataya yas tosayanti priyah
prana-prestha-sakhi-kulad api kilasaíkocita bhumikah
keli-bhumisu rupa-manjari-mukhas ta dasika samsraye
(Vraja-Vilasa-Stava, verse 38, Raghunatha dasa)

["She brings Radha and Krsna tambula (a betel nut preparation) and water that has been very sweetly flavored with milk and herbs (payo-dana). Tambul arpana: She brings a golden pot when Radhika and Krsna want to spit the betel after chewing it."]

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: A spittoon.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: A golden pot is placed there.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: For Their pana.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Then, abhisara (amorous tryst, or lovers’ rendevous). Do you know the meaning of abhisara? This is when Srimati Radhika meets Krsna in Sanket-sthali (a place of meeting). For example, She goes to meet with Him on Purnima.

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: The full-moon night.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: She dresses in white on the full moon night, and also during Suklapaksa, the fifteen days of the waxing moon. She dresses completely in white when She goes out for Her nocturnal meeting with Krsna on the full-moon night, and on the preceding nights she dresses in white in accordance with the gradual increase of the moon. Even though Her complexion is fair and very golden, at that time She has Her manjaris rub camphor mixed with many other ingredients on Her body.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Why?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: In order to make Her appear white.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Why?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: In that way, if anyone looks in Her direction they would think they are seeing only moon-rays.

Sripad Dhanurdhara Maharaja: It is a disguise.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: This is Her disguise.
And at that time the manjaris bind Her ankle bells so that they will not make any tinkling sound.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: No noise.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: No noise should be heard; and because She must not be seen, Her sari and veil should also be white.
Conversely, on a dark-moon night (amavasya) a sakhi tells Srimati Radhika, “The night is dark, so You must train how to go there.” Srimati Radhika then practices, at midnight. At that time She has Her sakhis take kalasas (pots) full of water and pour them in Her courtyard in order to make it muddy and very slippery.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Practice.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Then they place thorns here and there on that muddy ground. They have created a setting as if Radhika is walking in a forest on a cloudy night, with rain falling very heavily, making the earth extremely slippery, with many serpents and thorns as well.
So in this situation how can She go to Krsna? She practices during the night, by moving very quietly and cautiously. Like this. Do you know the word for this type of walking?

Sripad Dhanurdhara Maharaja: Tip-toe. Very quietly. It’s called tip-toe.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: As Lalita trains Srimati Radhika in this way, Rupa Manjari watches, and our guru in this world, as sakhi-manjari in that world, also watches.
The manjaris know everything – at what time they should go and how they should go – and they very cleverly make all arrangements. This is abhisara.
Krsna is waiting at Sanketa. The night is dark, and it is raining. The manjaris come there first to find Krsna and tell Him that Srimati Radhika will not come that night. Actually, Radhika has already come and is hiding, watching to see Krsna’s reaction. In order to further increase Krsna’s desire for Srimati Radhika, the manjaris lie to Him, saying, “She will not come tonight.” Krsna practically faints at that time, and anxiously suggests a way for Radhika to meet with Him. If the manjaris see that Krsna is sincerely hankering to meet with Radhika, they at once go and tell Her, and She then comes to Him. Otherwise, She will not come.
Sometimes, when it is time for abhisara, it may be that their fathers-in-law or mothers-in-law, or all of their sisters-in-law, are present in their homes. The manjaris must be so clever that they can find a way to cheat their in-laws, telling them lies and cleverly devising a way for Radha and Krsna to meet. This is called abhisara. The manjaris perform all these activities; they know so many clever tricks.

On Raganuga-bhakti

Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja
On Raganuga-bhakti
Discussions with the GBC on the book, Raga-Vartma-Candrika [Part 2]
Mathura, India: 1991

[Respected Harikatha Readers,
Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga.
For those of you who did not receive Part 1, which we sent out a few days ago, you can find it on www.backtobhaki.com and www.purebhakti.com. In the early 1990s, Srila Narayana Gosvami Maharaja used to give darsanas for several members of the ISKCON GBC disciples of Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada. During these few years, they regularly visited him and requested him to discuss Gaudiya Vaisnava literatures like Jaiva-dharma, Srimad-Bhagavatam Tenth Canto (Rasa-lila, Venu-gita, Brahmara-gita, and Gopi-gita) Harinama-cintamani, Sri Vilapa-kusumanjali, Sri Brahma-samhita, and Raga-vartma-candrika.
In 1991 he led four discussions on Raga-vartma-candrika, a famous Sanskrit treatise written Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. Below is the Part 2 in that series of discussions, and we hope to send you the rest, one after another. As you may know, Srila Narayana Gosvami Maharaja has requested that all his morning walks and darsanas be published, and he directed that the darsanas for the members of the ISKCON GBC be included.
If anyone has any pictures of Srila Maharaja and the GBC devotees that we can use for the future parts of this series, please email them to Vasanti dasi at: vasantidasi@gmail.com. Thank you.
Your aspiring servants, the Harikatha Team]

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: What is a manjari? We have heard about kamala-manjaris and mango-manjaris. Any creeper or good flower has manjaris. Although the manjari appears first and then the flower, the manjari is always located above the flower. When a bee comes to sit on the flower and drink its honey, the manjaris tremble, being overjoyed.
Similarly, the Krsna-bee comes to Srimati Radhika, She glances at Him, and They engage in loving pastimes (prema-vilas). Although the ‘bee’ does not sit on the manjari, the manjari trembles, feeling as if the bee is sitting on her. Whatever the ‘flower’ experiences in those pastimes manifests in the manjari, so there is no need for the bee to go to her. She automatically feels everything felt by the flower. If the bee kisses the flower, then, seeing this, the manjari feels that “the bee has kissed me.”
In fact, the manjari tastes something special, which even the flower does not taste, in the sense that the flower does not tremble as the manjari does. Similarly the maidservants of Srimati Radhika experience a pleasure in being Her maidservant, which She Herself dos not experience, and that pleasure is called bhava-ullasa rati.
Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami wanted to be a manjari, not a flower. In other words he did not want sakhi-bhava (the mood of Srimati Radhika’s friends like Lalita and Visakha, who have direct relationships with Sri Krsna). Do you understand? Herein lies the importance of the manjaris. In our sampradaya no one wants to be Sri Radha’s sakhi; they only want to be Her kinkari. Are you totally following my words? Do you know the meaning of the word kinkari?

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Servant.

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Maidservant

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: There is no equivalent word in English for kinkari. It is such a beautiful Sanskrit word, which refers to something very soft, very fragrant, and so sweet.
We cannot learn these topics simply by reading books. No book will clarify the truths for you as we are discussing in this conversation. By discussing with me in this way, you can obtain more than what you can obtain by simply reading books.

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: These truths come only through realization.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: I do not say that I have any realization, but I have God’s mercy and Gurudeva’s mercy.
In the first sloka of Vilapa-Kusumanjali, Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami states that although Rupa Manjari’s husband is absent, he sees a mark on her lips. How has this come about? It is not that Krsna has kissed Rupa Manjari. He has kissed Srimati Radhika and therefore Radhika has that mark on Her lips, but the mark at once manifested on the lips of Rupa Manjari.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: I was asking you about that in Bombay.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: The marks on the face or body of Srimati Radharani do not come to Lalita and Visakha, but they all come to the manjaris. We are followers of Rupa Gosvami, who is Rupa Manjari.
I think that in your entire life you will not forget this teaching.
A person may have taken only anusthaniki (formal) diksa, thinking, “So many others have taken diksa, so I should also take it.” By a fire yajna he has received a sacred thread, kanti-mala (neck beads), and so on, but he has not been given instructions on the internal mood of diksa, which constitutes real diksa.
Diksa comes gradually, not in a moment; the process of receiving diksa takes place over a long period of time. When one has the advantage of past births’ samskaras, one will easily accept diksa and the process will be accomplished quickly, but without previous samskaras the process will be slow.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Unless one gets the association of raganuga Vaisnavas.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: And that disciple must also be qualified. If the disciple does not have sufficient samskaras and does not yet possess any greed, he will not be able to properly receive these truths from his diksa-guru, who may be very qualified but may not have sufficient time to train him on this topic. Later on, when greed is meant to come, that disciple does not change his gurudeva; he need only accept a siksa-guru. Sometimes the disciple will give more preference to his siksa-guru, or equally to both gurus, according to their qualification. He will gradually hear all these topics.
If one’s diksa-guru is present, the disciple will receive all these things from him. Or, his gurudeva will gladly order him to hear from another person, as in the case of Sri Syamananda prabhu, Srila Narottama dasa Thakura, and Sri Srinivasa Acarya. .
As I mentioned earlier, if a person has greed by dint of his previous births’ samskaras or by his present birth’s samskaras, he will begin to search through sastra – by reading and hearing – especially those sastras or commentaries written by Srila Rupa Gosvami and his followers, the rupanuga Vaisnavas.
What is the actual meaning of rupanuga? In his books, Srila Rupa Gosvami has described, in tatastha-bhava, the various rasas. Do you know the meaning of tatastha?

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Marginal.

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Neutral.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: He has written from a neutral position about all the rasas – santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya, and madhurya. If one has greed for any of these moods, that person will be a raganuga-bhakta but not rupanuga.
What is rupanuga? Even if one follows Ujjvala-Nilamani, he may be raganuga but not rupanuga. One will be rupanuga when one especially follows the way in which Srila Rupa Gosvami (in the form of Sri Rupa Manjari) serves Radha and Krsna, deeply meditating on the qualities and bhava which Rupa Manjari possesses in serving Them.

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: All rupanuga-bhaktas are raganuga, but not all raganugas are rupanugas.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: The sadhaka will have to search through sastra how to receive these moods. He will hear from a rupanuga Vaisnava, who will tell him to read Srimad-Bhagavatam, Ujjvala-Nilamani, Krsna-Karnamrta, Radha-Rasa-Sudha-Nidhi, Jayadeva Gosvami’s Gita-Govinda, and the books of Candidasa, Vidyapati and others.
The rupanuga Vaisnava will also instruct him to search only that bhava for which he has greed. He will know about everything (sakhya, vatsalya, madhurya), but he will have to serve only by one mood, the mood of his sthayi-bhava (permanent constitutional mood). One’s sthayi-bhava will manifest only when prema is reached, but greed for that sthayi-bhava is achieved before that. Genuine greed will not change in this or any future life – this is called gadha-samskara *. If one has real greed, as Srila Rupa Gosvami has, his greed for a particular sthayi-bhava will never change in any birth. It will always remain the same.
Bharata Maharaja achieved the stage of bhava, but it is not known in which rasa.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: In Bhagavatamrtam it is given that his is one of Vaikuntha-bhava.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Only dasya-bhava.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Yes, dasya-bhava.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Sanaka, Sananda, Sanatana, and Sanat Kumara have their sthayi-bhava in santa-rasa. Yet, they can narrate the entire Srimad-Bhagavatam.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: How is that? I remember asking you that question before.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: They can do so from a neutral position. They know all about the various rasas, but they don’t have direct experience of those rasas.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: What about Sukadeva Gosvami?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Srila Sukadeva Gosvami has some direct experience, because he is the suka…

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Parrot…

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: He is the parrot of Srimati Radhika, so he posssess the sthayi-bhava for Vraja.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: This is a very important thing that you said about Sukadeva Gosvami.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: As Srimati Radhika’s parrot, he sits on the branches of tamala or kadamba trees. He watches the confidential pastimes of Radhika and Krsna, and becomes very, very pleased. Yet, he cannot serve like Rupa Manjari.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: So what kind of bhava does he have? He is watching everything.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja: It has been said in sastra that he has santa-bhava.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Because he is neutral.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja: But he is in Vraja, and there is no santa-bhava in Vraja. We will have to judge what rasa he actually possesses. When Srimati Radhika and Sri Krsna are sleeping in the morning, that Suka parrot says so many things to awaken Them.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: That is not santa-bhava…

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Yes, it is not santa-bhava.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: He must have everything.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: We will have to consider all these truths.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Why is it said that he has santa-bhava?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: For the santa-rasa bhaktas.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Externally it appears like that.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: But…

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: But it is not actually.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: The cows of Vraja have vatsalya-bhava, so surely Suka cannot be of santa-rasa.
To illustrate how to search out the process in order to attain the fruit of one’s genuine greed, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura gives the example of a man who is greedy to drink milk. Seeing some milk he wants to taste it, so he must go through a process to get it. He may ask someone who drinks milk how that person acquired it. After questioning him he will purchase a cow, making sure that the cow has a calf, because unless the cow has a calf it cannot give milk. He will then take the cow and calf to his home, where he will apply water or ghee to the udder of the cow and bring the calf to drink. When the calf has taken milk, the man will wash the udder of the cow, after which he milks her. Next, he puts the milk on the fire to boil. Then, if he wants that boiled milk sweetened, he adds sugar, and for extra flavor he adds rose water, kewra (an extract distilled from the Pandanus flower which is used to flavor drinks and desserts in Indian cuisine), camphor, and so on.
Similarly, although a sadhaka with genuine greed does not require the reasoning of sastra to convince him to do bhakti, he goes through those sastras that will give him entrance into the process in order to achieve his goal.
Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura tells us that when a person has actual greed in raganuga-bhakti, he will also follow the procedures of vaidhi-bhakti – although his bhakti will not be vaidhi-bhakti. He will engage in the nine processes of bhakti, namely sravanam, kirtanam, visnu smaranam, pada-sevanam and so on. From the very beginning he will carefully perform guru-caranasraya (taking shelter of the lotus feet of sri guru), and faithfully serve him in visrambha-bhava.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: What is the meaning of visrambha-bhava?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: It implies ‘giving up all fear.’ Fear caused by the sense of awe and reverence is not present. The disciple will serve his guru as a bosom friend. He will not think, “I am very low and he is very high.” Rather, he will determine, “He is mine and I am his.”
The analogy is given of a young son who, seeing his father sitting above him, does not care to sit on the ground. He will at once jump up and sit on his father’s lap. Then he will pat his father’s shoulder, stroke his father’s face, and touch him on his arm or hold his hand, serving him with great love.
Moreover, a person qualified with genuine greed, with even greater love than that young son, will serve his gurudeva from whom he has collected the truths he has grasped and the moods he now possesses. This type of intimate service is essential.
Guru-caranasraya means ‘taking shelter of the self-realized guru.’ This is the first of the sixty-four items of devotional service. Then, following the instruction of the second item, one takes diksa initiation from him. Sri Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu lists these sixty-four practices of devotional service, the first five of which are in relationship to guru.

["On the path of regulative devotional service, one must observe the following items: (1) One must accept a bona fide spiritual master. (2) One must accept initiation from him. (3) One must serve him. (4) One must receive instructions from the spiritual master and make inquiries in order to learn devotional service. (5) One must follow in the footsteps of the previous acaryas and follow the directions given by the spiritual master."]

The raganuga-bhakta follows these same procedures, but his bhava (mood) has changed from that which is found in vaidhi-bhakti. The vaidhi-bhakti disciple will sit lower and pray to his gurudeva with folded palms, “Gurudeva, please give me an order. What service shall I do?” Then, when he receives an order, as a servant, that disciple will perform the service. On the other hand, a ‘greedy person’ will serve in the mood I have previously described; with no fear and no sense of difference. He will see resolve that “I am his…”

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: “And he is mine.”

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: All the limbs of vaidhi-bhakti are followed by the raganuga Vaisnava, but…

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: What is the difference?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: The mood is different.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: A different mood.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: If one rejects the practices of vaidhi, he will not be able to enter raganuga; his greed will be checked. So he must follow.
For a person who has actual greed and wants to follow the process of raganuga-bhakti, Srimad-Bhagavatam says that Bhagavan comes to him in the forms of both caitya-guru and diksa-guru. In this connection we should know that guru is akhanda-tattva (the complete, undivided principle of guru), a manifestation of Nityananda Prabhu, Baladeva Prabhu. Because gurudeva gives everything that Nityananda Prabhu and Baladeva Prabhu have come to give, and because all his instructions are Theirs, he is regarded as Their manifestation.
In Bhagavad-Gita (10.10) it is stated:

tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti purvakam
dadami buddhi-yogam tam yena mam upayanti te

["Upon those who perform bhajana to Me with love, yearning for My eternal association, I give them the intelligence by which they can come to Me."]

If a soul surrenders to Krsna and possesses pure greed, if he has a pure heart and sufficient samskaras, the Lord reveals everything in his heart (dadami buddhi-yogam) as caitya-guru. Krsna states in Bhagavad-gita, “I give him the wisdom to achieve my bhakti.” He does not give this openly; He gives it in the heart. He benedicts His devotee with a sphurti (internal vision), inspiring him from within, and personally manifests in his heart all siddhantas. He also gives instructions externally, in the form of the diksa-guru or siksa-guru.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: You say he dictates within the heart?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Yes. He dictates in the heart. Certainly.
People may see that this devotee has no guru and wonder, “How does he know these things?” Here is the answer. Krsna dictates everything, He manifests Himself, from within, whether or not anyone else sees.
I have sometimes experienced this myself. I feel something within myself – I have not read, nor have I seen or heard a certain fact; yet, sometimes very beautiful things come in my heart. Perhaps you have also had this experience? Certainly you will have had this experience, because one who serves his gurudeva will surely receive these realizations. Even if gurudeva is not present in our sight, still, he will manifest all these truths.
Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura begins by telling us the three key slokas from Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu (1.294-296) by which one can enter the path of raganuga-bhakti. The first is:

krsnam smaran janam casya prestham nija samihitam
tat tat katha ratas casau kuryad vasam vraje sada

["While remembering Sri Krsna and His beloved associates whom we desire to follow, being fully absorbed in discussions of their pastimes, one should always reside in Vraja. If this is not possible, then one should reside there by mind."]

The second is:

seva sadhaka rupena siddha rupena catra hi
tad bhava lipsuna karya vraja-lokanusaratah

["On this path of raganuga, being charmed by the intense love of Krsna’s beloved Vrajavasis, the sadhaka should live in Vraja under the guidance of those devotees who have taken shelter of the Vrajavasis (like Sri Rupa, Sanatana and Raghunatha dasa Gosvamis), always eager to serve them in his present physical body. And, in the perfected stage of his siddha-rupa, the internally conceived spiritual body suitable for performing prema-seva, he should engage in the cherished service of Sri Krsna according to his chosen mood. In this regard he should follow in the footsteps of the eternal residents of Vraja, such as Sri Radhika, Lalita, Visakha, and Sri Rupa Manjari."]

And the third sloka is:

sravanotkirtanadini vaidhi-bhakty uditani tu
yany angani ca tanyatra vijneyani manisibhih

["In vaidhi-bhakti one should practice the limbs of bhakti like sravana, kirtana, and so on according to one’s qualification. Similarly, for raganuga-bhakti also it has been advised by scholars who are well versed in the principles of bhakti to follow these practices."]

Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura then comments on each sloka, one by one – this subject is very deep. Let us discuss the first sloka.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Where is this sloka? Which part of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu is it in? Where can I find it?

Sripad Giriraja Svami: I can find it. It is at the end of the Eastern Division.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: You can see it at the end of purva vibhaga (Eastern division). Krsnam smaran means ‘remembering Krsna.’ janam casya prestham nija samihitam refers to additionally remembering His prestha. Do you know what prestha means?

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Dear ones.
These dear associates may be of dasya-rasa, sakhya-rasa, or vatsalya-rasa, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura is especially discussing those in madhurya-rasa.
One who has developed greed to attain the mood of the gopis will remember Krsna when He is in Seva Kunja or Vamsivata. He has a lovely smile on His face, and He has placed a very beautiful vamsi flute on His lips. His restless eyes, like those of a deer, are searching here and there. Seeing the gopis coming, He becomes overjoyed, and at that moment He has no control over His body or mind. He is God Himself, yet He forgets everything at that time. He knows not what He is doing, nor even what He looks like. Standing in His tribhanga-lalita (threefold-bending) pose, He is exquisitely beautiful.
Thousands upon thousands of gopis are present there, but from the corner of His eyes He is searching for one particular gopi – and that gopi is delaying. Then, from far away He sees Her coming. Who is that gopi? Srimati Radhika. The raganuga sadhaka meditates how Krsna appears at that time.
This is smaranam – remembering Krsna with all these details and appreciating His many virtues. In Jaiva Dharma we read about the qualities of Kisora-Krsna, that is, Krsna in His teenage form, in srngara-rasa (madhurya-rasa). The qualities of Krsna in sakhya-rasa are not the same as His qualities when He is with the gopis, and the qualities of Krsna with Nanda and Yasoda are also different. His qualities are different in every rasa.
We should remember Krsna with all the qualities with which He is adorned in madhura-bhava. We should remember Him with the gopis as He tries to cheat them in gambling; and as He cheats them and is cheated by them as they try to steal His flute. Remember Krsna and His priya-jana, His dearmost associates.
What are the ways of the gopis, and especially of Srimati Radharani? What are the activities of that very gopi for whom we have greed to follow? That gopi is not Radhika, Lalita or Visakha; it is Rupa Manjari. We have a very keen interest to see what she is doing. It is her mood that we want to adopt. When Srimati Radhika is pleased, then Rupa Manjari becomes so pleased. Rupa Manjari performs so many services, like bringing water in a golden pot, sometimes very slowly and gently fanning with a camara...

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Massaging?

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Yes, when she sees that Sri Sri Radha and Krsna are very tired, she serves Them accordingly. We will carefully watch that manjari, seeing what she is doing and how she is performing her numerous services.
The way in which one enters these pastimes and services is based on unbroken remembrance. Janam casya – remembering all the gopis, and especially that gopi in whom I am…

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Interested.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Interested.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: Meditating upon that.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: This is the method of raganuga-sadhana-bhajana. Tat tat katha ratas casau – This phrase in the same sloka is in relation to the siksa-guru, that premi-guru or raganuga-guru from whom we are hearing. He will discourse with us about the ways in which all the sakhis are serving Krsna, and especially the ways in which Rupa Manjari and our guru in sakhi-vesa (in the form of a sakhi) are serving. One should talk about their pastimes with Krsna, as I sometimes discuss them with you.
Such a devotee always resides in Vrndavana. If he has no chance to be in Vrndavana by body, he surely lives there by mind; for without living in Vrndavana, one cannot attain that kind of love.
These three practices are essential: Krsna smarana, remembering Krsna with His dearmost associates; tat tat katha ratas casau, continuously conversing about their pastimes; and kuryad vasam vraje sada, always residing in Vrndavana (if not by body, then at least by mind), in such pastime places as Seva Kunja, Sanketa, and Javat, and if you have the qualification you may go to Radha Kunda at midday. Spend all day with Radhika and that gopi for whom you have the conviction to follow.
This is all for today. I will, perhaps, be able to complete the next two slokas in the next three days.

Sripad Tamal Krsna Gosvami: You will speak for three more days?.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: If I continue these explanations for the next few days, you will be able to understand something. If I am in a hurry, the discussion will not be as beneficial for you.

(Question in Bengali)

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaja: Her question is this: If someone wants to live in Vrndavana by mind, then won’t his body also come? The answer is that his body will automatically follow his mind and come to Vrndavana, if that is his sole desire.
Otherwise, if a person is not so qualified, he will engage himself in other duties and think: "This other duty should be done. This work should be done. Moreover, the place in which I live has so many facilities.” So, being far away, this type of a person will think about living in Vrndavana, but he will only achieve a little benefit.
Those who are like Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami will think, “If I am not there at my house, let anyone burn it down. And what will happen to my parents, children, and wife if I go to Vrndavana? I don’t know how they will live their lives – whether they will be having problems and difficulties, or if they will be all right. It is no longer my responsibility.”
On the other hand, a neophyte disciple may say, “Oh, my Gurudeva told me to preach, so I must do this. This is my duty (so no need to meditate on Vrndavana.)” However, when our greed will come in full bloom, we will forget everything else. At that stage no other obligation will come in our way.
Such a pure devotee will be seen by the entire world as guru. For example, even now, we follow Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami as our gurus. And what are we preaching? We are preaching only their words. We are preaching our Gurudeva’s words.
If others will see that Tamal Krsna Maharaja’s words and Giriraja Maharaja’s words are truly the words of Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja – if they will see that your words are correctly in line (in accordance with guru and guru-parampara) – they will be bound to accept all your instructions. At that time there will be no harm in preaching or doing any other seva; that will be real preaching. However, I don’t know how many births it will take for you to come to that stage.
One day you will have to leave your present preaching and become qualified to go to Goloka Vrndavana, where there is no preaching, only service. Then, from there, as Srila Rupa Gosvami came with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, you can also return and preach with your spiritual master.

[To be continued…]

[*Endnote: (from Jaiva-dharma by Srila Bhakivinoda Thakura, Chapter 28, Part 2): Vrajanatha: Gurudeva, which gadha-samskara, profound impression, is relevant to becoming ‘rapt in meditation’?
Gosvami: My son, entangled by material nature, you have been caught in the cycle of repeated births and deaths, working out the accrued reactions of your karma. In this mechanism, two types of samskara – praktana, of past lives, and adhunika, of the present life – have helped to frame your mental constitution, temperament, and contemplations. Originally, your soul possessed a pure consciousness and nature that have become polluted. However, now your previous spiritually pious deeds have led you to seek saintly association and execute devotional service, thus forming a powerful new samskara that will uproot the polluted material samskaras and gradually allow your original pure consciousness to take its rightful place once more. The deeper the gadha-samskara of devotional service sinks in, the stronger the presence of acintya-tattva will be felt in the heart, thus causing you to become ‘rapt in meditation’ in your sthayi-bhava.]

Minha resposta para o artigo do GBC: - A conversa final - Parte 1

Por Srila Bhaktivedanta Bhagavat Maharaja,

Discípulo harinama e diksha de Srila Prabhupada e sannyasi discípulo de Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Gosvami Maharaj.


Traduzido por Ramananda Das

Quando fui alertado para ver a reportagem que o GBC publicou recentemente sobre a conversa entre Srila Prabhupada e Srila Narayana Maharaja, imediatamente compreendi que eles estavam tentando minimizar a importância de Srila Narayana Maharaja na cerimônia de samadhi e a sua relação com Srila Prabhupada. Então, não fiquei surpreso ao ler o artigo, mas fiquei muito desapontado. Examinando o documento apresentado com um bengali nativo e comparando isto com a fita que eles providenciaram, fiquei chocado ao ver que eles fizeram tantas mudanças, omissões e até mesmo acrescemos á conversa e ainda proveu-nos a fita original agora digitalmente restaurado. Não estou certo o que eles estavam pensando quando estavam fazendo isto, mas é óbvio que eles se sentiram confiantes que podiam escapar com isto.

Nos anos 90, os seguidores de Srila Narayana Maharaja fizeram uma tradução e transcrição desta conversa que foi publicado no livro chamado “Their lasting relationship”. O título do artigo era: “A ordem final de Srila Prabhupada”. Baseado na fita restaurada e digital que escutei com um tradutor bengali, há também muitos erros nesta transcrição. A tradução feita pelos discípulos de Srila Narayana Maharaja foi feita em meados dos anos 90 usando um simples toca fitas e assim eles transcreveram neste livro. Ele explicou que teve que ouvir várias vezes simplesmente para escutar as palavras básicas da conversa e ainda não estava absolutamente certo sobre todas estas coisas, porém fez o melhor que pôde de acordo com as circunstâncias. Então, considerando os obstáculos que teve para tornar isto compreensível, poderia haver erros nesta transcrição.

Não estou certo sobre qual a desculpa usada pela Iskcon neste atual artigo, porém para comentar isto gostaria primeiro de ressaltar a íntima relação entre Srila Prabhupada e Srila Narayana Maharaja de acordo com estas e outras conversas que eu e outros devotos presenciamos. Se você procurar no Veda Base Folio e achar a conversa na qual Tamal Krishna e outros conversam com Srila Narayana Maharaja datada no dia 8 de outubro de 1977, vocês verão que justo após a conversa onde Srila Prabhupada diz: “Narayana Maharaja vem; então está tudo certo.” A seguinte conversa segue após uma pausa.



Prabhupada: Quando você voltou?
Bhagavat: Cheguei justamente agora, meia hora atrás, da América.
Upendra: E ele está realmente magro, Srila Prabhupada, ele está magro.
Prabhupada: Porque?
Bhagavat: Porque estou seguindo chaturmasya. Reduzi para 160 pounds. Antes estava com 260.
Prabhupada: Muito bom.
Bhagavat: Devo cantar agora?
Prabhupada: Sim. (começa o kirtan)



Então, aqui está a evidência que eu estava em Vrindavana nesta hora e comprovei a íntima relação que Srila Narayana Maharaja tinha com Prabhupada. Não só eu estava presente nos muitos encontros entre Srila Narayana Maharaja e Prabhupada, mas outros também estavam lá. Aqui está uma cópia de um artigo postado no facebook por um dos meus irmãos espirituais:

“O GBC diz que a última conversa de NM com Prabhupada foi em 8 de outubro de 1977. Eu estava presente no dia 10 ou 11 de outubro quando Prabhupada encontrou com NM e Swami Bon. Primeiramente, Eu escutei Prabhupada falando em inglês para NM cuidar dos seus discípulos. Depois eles conversaram em bengali e hindi por 20 minutos. Não sei se isso foi gravado. Muitas fitas de 1977 desapareceram. Sankarsan prabhu estava duplicando elas em Houston, nomeando-as por conteúdo e agora ele diz que elas nunca existiram.”

Isto nos leva á outra questão. Onde estão as fitas? No folio (c.d) não há gravações das conversas dos dias 18 de agosto até dia 1 de outubro. Por que? Onde está as conversas? Srila Prabhupada ficou mudo por 6 semanas? Aqui temos a um devoto que estava presente na conversa de apenas 1 á 3 dias antes do desaparecimento de Prabhupada. Este devoto escutou claramente Prabhupada pedindo á Srila Narayana Maharaja para por favor tomar conta dos seus discípulos. Porque o GBC diz que não houve conversas sendo que estivemos lá neste momento? Este mesmo devoto confirmou que Sankarsana Prabhu estava fazendo cópias destas fitas. Agora, Sankarsana Prabhu esconde isto. Porque? As fitas se encontram no arquivo? Vamos ver o que Ekanath Prabhu tem a dizer sobre isto.

Isso nos guia a outra questão. Onde estão as fitas? No folio não conversas gravadas listada de 18 de Agosto a 1 de Outubro. Porque isso? Onde estão as conversas? Srila Prabhupada estava em silencio por 6 semanas? Aqui nós temos um devoto que foi testemunha de uma conversa somente 1 a 3 dias antes de Srila Prabhupada nos deixar, aonde seu devoto ouviu Srila Prabhupada dizer em Inglês para Srila Narayan Maharaja “por favor tome conta dos meus discípulos.” Aonde está essa fita? Por que o GBC da ISKCON está dizendo que não há tal conversa quando nós temos testemunhas que houve? Este mesmo devoto é uma testemunha do fato que Sankarshan Prabhu estava fazendo cópias dessas fitas. Agora Sankarshan Prabhu está negando isso. PORQUE? As fitas estão nos arquivos? Deixe-nos ver o que Ekanath Prabhu tem a dizer sobre isso.

Consegui dados importantes de uma carta postada no Sampradaya Sun datada no dia 5 de fevereiro de 2010, intitulada “Postando todas as gravações de Srila Prabhupada” escrita por Ekanath prabhu o diretor do arquivo da BBT. A seguinte lista escrita por Ekanath Prabhu revela a quantidade de áudio de Srila Prabhupada que não foram publicadas:

PS. Gráfico contínuo de progresso de 05-02-2010:

Áudio pronto para a transcrição - 47
Revisão do bengali em progresso - 4
Transferências cassete digital a serem identificados - 249
Revisão do Inglês completado--Estágio 1 - 110
Revisão do Inglês em progresso-- Estágio 1 - 62
Revisão do Inglês em progresso-- Estágio 2 - 16
Transcrevendo em Inglês em progresso - 66
Transcrevendo em Hindi em progresso - 15
Bengali pronto para transcrever - 15
Pronto para o Folio-- Veda Base ® - 10
Hindi pronto para transcrever - 54
Sânscrito pronto para revisão - 50
Carretéis a serem digitalizados e serem identificados - 161
Revisão do Sânscrito em progresso- 26
Transcrições prontas para revisão do Inglês -- Estágio 1 – 44

Número estimado de áudios que não foram publicados - 500

Estes são os quinhentos áudios não publicados nos arquivos. Há algo que está sendo escondido pelo GBC? Ekanath diz que não, mas temos a certeza das conversas, porém não há fitas, porque? Olhei no folio(cd) para ver se encontrava alguma coisa dos dias 10 e 11 de novembro de 1977 sobre a conversa entre Prabhupada e Narayana Maharaja e Bon Maharaj. No dia 13 de novembro há uma conversa que parece ter sido cortada no meio entre Prabhupada e Bon Maharaj. É esta conversa que o devoto está falando? Se for, este foi um dia antes que Prabhupada deixou o corpo. Eu estava lá no último dia e Prabhupada não comunicou com ninguém exceto com Narayana Maharaja nas últimas 5 horas da sua presença manifesta neste planeta. De qualquer jeito aqui temos a confirmação da conversa parcialmente em inglês entre Prabhupada e Narayana Maharaja onde os devotos escutam Prabhupada dizendo em inglês: “por favor, cuide dos meus discípulos”. E temos também a indicação do Folio que esta conversa aconteceu no dia 13 de novembro como o outro devoto viu que Bon Maharaj estava no quarto e na gravação postada no Folio é dito que Bon Maharaj estava no quarto com Prabhupada no dia 13 de novembro. Então, quando Narayana Maharaja diz “Eu falei com Swamiji no último dia”. Está ele se referindo a esta última conversa do dia 13, um dia antes que Prabhupada deixou este planeta? Se isto é verdade, onde está este áudio? Porque temos o áudio desta conversa entre Prabhupada e Bon Maharaj pela metade? O que está sendo escondido pelo GBC. Onde estão estes áudios?

Lembro quando Narayana Maharaj veio no dia 8 falar com Prabhupada. Muitas vezes depois disso Narayana Maharaj veio ver Prabhupada. Eu estava no quarto em algumas destas ocasiões. A relação entre Prabhupada e Narayana Maharaja, era muito, muito íntima e profunda. Era claro como havia uma relação íntima espiritual entre eles. Senti-me profundamente privilegiado de presenciar as lindas trocas espirituais entre estes dois Maha-Bhagavatas.

Quando vi Narayana Maharaja pela primeira vez andando até o Krishna-Balarama (templo), fiquei muito impressionado com seu comportamento. Seus profundos olhos azuis pareciam claros e radiantes e sua tez brilhava tanto que só podia me lembrar de Srila Prabhupada. Sua graciosa postura quando caminhava parecia como se ele estivesse flutuando. Imediatamente me deu a impressão estar vendo uma personalidade extraordinária. Isto aconteceu um ou dois dias antes dele retornar para encontrar com Prabhupada que acabamos de relatar.

Na primeira vez que fui introduzido formalmente á Narayana Maharaja, ele apreciou que eu estava seguindo os princípios de chaturmasya. Ele então me pegou pelo braço e me levou pra dentro do quarto, do lado da cama onde Prabhupada estava deitado. Ele então me descreveu o significado da posição e postura das mãos, pés etc.. de Prabhupada. No final da descrição ele disse que esta postura era a postura de dança e que ele estava dançando com Radha e Krishna. Prabhupada estava em um transe espiritual tão profundo enquanto dormindo no samadhi que não havia nenhum sinal de interação com o mundo externo. Quando ele retornou deste estado algumas horas depois ele nos disse que havia conversado com Krishna. Ouvindo isto da boca de lótus de Prabhupada e lembrando do que Narayana Maharaja havia me falado pouco antes, fiquei convencido de que Narayana Maharaja era também um devoto puro como Prabhupada e que Narayana Maharaja também podia falar com Radha e Krishna exatamente como Srila Prabhupada.

No último dia quando Prabhupada partiu deste mundo eu vi Srila Narayana Maharaja entrando no quarto. Novamente, Srila Prabhupada não estava comunicando com ninguém, mas nesta hora ele estava em um transe extático e exibindo vários sintomas de êxtase como tremores, contorcendo, gemendo, ficando atônito e chorando profundamente.Ele não estava em sua consciência externa até mesmo com agente o massageando, chorando, cantando etc... Quando Srila Narayana Maharaja entrou no quarto, veio imediatamente até a cabeceira da cama onde eu estava massageando a cabeça de Prabhupada. Narayana Maharaja abaixou-se do lado da cama e botando sua boca perto do ouvido de Prabhupada, cantou um mantra em humor bastante calmo. Nesta hora, Prabhupada voltou do seu transe e ficou imóvel. Ele então, levantou sua mão e apontou seus dedos para Narayana Maharaja em um gesto como se estivesse dando bênçãos. O gesto que eu havia visto antes e com certeza foi direcionado á Narayana Maharaja.

Continua...

THE TRUTH FOR THE RECORD Part Two of My Refutation of the GBC Paper “The Last Conversation”

by :B.V. Bhagavat Maharaja


In this second part of my refutation of the GBC paper “The Last Conversation” I will establish that the GBC are purposely misleading in their presentation, harboring what is obviously willful intent to make a pure unalloyed devotee of the Lord a great Mahabhagavat, Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Goswami Maharaja appear as if he were the one giving misinformation.

The GBC body published this paper titled “The Last Conversation”. The fact is stated at the very top of the second part right after the transcription of the conversation:

“Issued by the Governing Body Commission of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness 24 March 2010”

Thus it is absolutely clear that the issued paper is comprised of their collective words. This means that every GBC member is held accountable for the offense committed in their shameful misrepresentation.

It is in the second paragraph after this heading that the GBC makes the first of its false statements.

“On the 8th of the month, Srila Prabhupada asked his attendant disciples to arrange for several of his Godbrothers to come and meet with him. That afternoon, Bhakti-caru Swami, Bhakti-prema Swami, and Sridhara Swami went to Mathura to consult with Prabhupada’s Godnephew H.H. B.V. Narayana Maharaja; they were to get directions for the conduct of last rites for a great soul. That same evening, Narayana Maharaja, accompanied by a few men, arrived at Krsna-Balarama Mandir to see Prabhupada in person. Srila Prabhupada and Narayana Maharaja conversed at some length, almost entirely in the Bengali language; their words were recorded. This would prove to be their final conversation—one that took place not on Prabhupada’s ‘last day,’ as Narayana Maharaja frequently states, but over a month before.”

Note for the record, what the GBC body states in this official paper regarding the October 8th conversation: This would prove to be their final conversation—one that took place not on Prabhupada’s “last day,” as Narayana Maharaja frequently states, but over a month before.”

So, practically from the beginning of their paper, they have made a false statement and a false accusation. They clearly state that the October 8th conversation “would prove to be their final conversation.” In the first part of my refutation, I pointed out that according to the Veda Base record of conversations I arrived in Vrndavan on the 8th of October and I personally saw Srila Narayana Maharaja come and meet with Srila Prabhupada at least twice after that date. My godbrother Pita Das has also given testimony that he saw Srila Narayana Maharaja speaking with Srila Prabhupada and Bon Maharaja only a day or so before Srila Prabhupada left. Subsequent to the publication of my first refutation, another godbrother Damodara Pandit Prabhu has stated that after October 8th he was told that Srila Prabhupada requested to see Srila Narayan Maharaja. He was then asked to pick up Srila Narayan Maharaja in the car and bring him to see Srila Prabhupada. Therefore based on the authority of the above mentioned eyewitnesses who saw Srila Narayan Maharaja have meetings with Srila Prabhupada and engage in conversations with him after the October 8th conversation we can conclude that the statement in the GBC paper: “This would prove to be their final conversation” is totally false.

The second transgression is the false accusation against Srila Narayan Maharaja that he did not communicate with Srila Prabhupada on his last day. This is based on the false statement that the October 8th conversation was the last conversation.

Contradictory to false GBC propaganda, when Srila Narayana Maharaja states that he spoke to Srila Prabhupada on his last day, he does not refer to the October 8th conversation but a later conversation altogether. As confirmed by numerous eyewitness accounts, Srila Narayan Maharaja did in fact have a conversation with Srila Prabhupada most likely the day before Srila Prabhupada departed from this earth. Furthermore, although Srila Narayana Maharaja did not have an extended conversation with Srila Prabhupada on the last day he verbally communicated with Srila Prabhupada and received a blessing in response sometime within the last five hours of Srila Prabhupada’s manifest presence when no one else was able to communicate with Srila Prabhupada.

Seeing both a false statement and false accusation in the second paragraph of the paper we can understand that the entire document is based on a false premise with the willful intent to mislead people into thinking that Srila Narayan Maharaja has not been honest in his descriptions of his relationship with Srila Prabhupada.

In the beginning of the third paragraph, the GBC make the following statement: “In subsequent years, Narayan Maharaja has often referred to this last conversation.” The GBC then present a cut and paste selection of quotes from Srila Narayan Maharaja and subsequently claim that these statements by him are not reflected in the above conversation. Because the October 8th conversation is not actually “The Final Conversation” between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja this entire approach is willfully misleading. Several people presently on the GBC were there in the room with Srila Prabhupada during the months of October and November 1977. They know very well that October 8th 1977 was not the last conversation between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja. However they allowed this paper to be published with blatantly false statements. This clearly indicates their willful intent to mislead the public.

The GBC provide five quotes they have selected to convince the devotees that Srila Narayan Maharaja is misleading people about the timing and content of his meeting with Srila Prabhupada. If we examine these five quotes carefully, we will note that only once does Srila Narayan Maharaja say “on the last day.” He says “in his last days” and “in the last days” and “at the time of his departure” in 3 of the other five and makes no mention of timing at all in one of them but only about content. These general statements indicate that, as the eyewitnesses have confirmed, there were several meetings between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja between October 8th and November 14th and that Srila Narayan Maharaja is speaking about a recurring request by Srila Prabhupada to him during the course of several conversations over the last five weeks “in his last days” and “in the last days” and “at the time of his departure”.

According to Pita Das, he personally heard Srila Prabhupada ask Srila Narayan Maharaja to please take care of his disciples and guide them in a meeting that took place in mid-November. Pita Das recalls that this meeting took place around the 10th or 11th of November. In the Veda Base conversations we find not mention of this. However, Pita Das mentions that Srila Bon Maharaja was also in the room during that meeting and the Veda Base conversations has Bon Maharaja in the room with Srila Prabhupada on November 13th the day before he left this world, hence the oft made statement by Srila Narayan Maharaja “the night before he entered Nitya Lila”. Although there is no tape recording of Srila Narayan Maharaja in the room on that day the tape recording we have obviously picks up in the middle of the conversation and the Archives has over 500 sound files that it has not published yet. It appears that since we have a witness placing Srila Narayan Maharaja in the room with Srila Bon Maharaja on that day that the sound file is missing.

By starting the paper on the false premise that “this would prove to be their last conversation,” The GBC has tried to create the illusion that Srila Narayan Maharaja is the one making false statements about the timing and content of his conversations with Srila Prabhupada. However, the quotes themselves make it clear that Srila Narayan Maharaja is speaking about several conversations over the course of the last five weeks “in the last days”, “in his last days”, and this is corroborated by witnesses. Therefore, as I already stated, it is clear that this paper has been concocted with the willful intent to mislead devotees about the timing and the content of the conversations as well as the relationship between these two great Mahabhagavats.

Thus far, I have been recapping in detail what I spoke about broadly in the first part of my refutation. Now I would like to address some of the insinuations made by the GBC in their interpretation of the first part of this conversation between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja.

To begin, let us first consider a conversation between Srila Prabhupada and his disciples regarding the arrangements for Srila Prabhupada’s Samadhi ceremony. Srila Narayan Maharaja’s participation in that ceremony is discussed. For the record, here is the conversation.

Tamala Krsna Maharaja: I think it [parikrama] would be difficult. Better that we go parikraming around our temple, Krsna-Balarama Mandira. That's a little easier. Don't you think that's better?
Srila Prabhupada: Hmm.
Tamala Krsna Maharaja: If you get a little stronger, then it may be possible. That will depend on Krsna. So Krsna Das, we should bring him here. Anyone else you want to see? Narayana Maharaja?
(Srila Prabhupada confirmed with his head)
Tamala Krsna Maharaja: Yes. We went to see him just to inquire about the necessary ceremony, and he gave us instruction. I sent Bhakti-caru Maharaja and Bhakti-prema Maharaja, and they wrote down everything. But Narayana Maharaja was very concerned. He said he's going to try to come to see you tomorrow. That's all right, isn't it? So Krsna Das can be called for. Anytime? Okay. He stays at Radha-kunda? Does he stay at the Gaudiya Matha here? He does—we’ll inquire.
Srila Prabhupada: Narayana Maharaja comes, then everything will be all right.
Tamala Krsna Maharaja: So if I call Narayana Maharaja, is there any need for Krsna Das to come?
Srila Prabhupada: He can arrange.
Tamala Krsna Maharaja: Narayana Maharaja. Actually, he wanted to do that. He gave us instructions, but he also wanted to take part. So better I call Narayana Maharaja, then Krsna Das. Okay. I'll send the car for him tomorrow morning. He was saying he would like to come tomorrow, so I'll send a car and say that Prabhupada requests that you come this morning, if it's convenient. Is that all right? Jaya, Srila Prabhupada.

Regarding this conversation, the GBC makes the following insinuation:

“It is important to note that the central concern here is how to conduct the samadhi ceremony, and Prabhupada thinks that it will not be necessary to confer with Krsna Dasa Babaji if Narayan Maharaja is consulted for directions: “Everything will be all right,” and, “He can arrange.” Tamala Krsna Maharaja then observes that Narayan Maharaja is not only eager to be consulted but to personally participate as well: “Actually, he wanted to do that. He gave us instructions, but he also wanted to take part.” Thus, it appears that the idea of Narayana Maharaja’s participation in the ceremony originates from Narayana Maharaja himself, not from Srila Prabhupada.”

Here the GBC endeavors to make it look like Srila Narayan Maharaja invited himself to participate in the Samadhi ceremony. However, if we listen to the conversation that occurs prior to this and after this, as well as examine the structure and sequence of all these conversations, we will readily see yet another willful attempt made by the GBC to mislead the public.

First of all, this conversation begins at 37:36 on the MP3 sound file that accompanies the paper sent out by the GBC. Just prior to this, at around 36:20, we can hear Tamal Krsna ask Srila Prabhupada, “So should we bring Krsna Das?” So, Tamal Krsna initiates this discussion asking if he should bring "Akinchana Krsna Das Babaji", who is Srila Prabhupada’s godbrother. After a lapse of approximately one minute the conversation provided above begins. Again, Tamala Krsna asks about making arrangements to bring Krsna Das Babaji to see Srila Prabhupada. If we listen to the tape we notice that Srila Prabhupada has failed to respond to both inquiries of Tamal Krsna to bring Krsna Das Babaji. In contrast, the first time Tamala Krsna mentions Srila Narayan Maharaja’s name he immediately responds with a nod of his head, giving approval to the idea of bringing Srila Narayan Maharaja.

Tamal Krsna recognizing Srila Prabhupada’s desire then explains that he sent two sannyasis to learn about the Samadhi Ceremony from Srila Narayan Maharaj. The truth is that Srila Prabhupada had ordered them to go to Srila Narayan Maharaja to learn about the ceremony. This alone demonstrates Srila Prabhupada’s desire to involve Srila Narayan Maharaja in the ceremony. Tamal Krsna then informs Srila Prabhupada about Srila Narayan Maharajas mood when the sannyasis were learning from him. He states: “But Narayan Maharaja was very concerned. He said he's going to try to come to see you tomorrow. That's all right, isn't it?” This statement does not indicate that Srila Narayan Maharaja had a desire to perform the ceremony but rather that he was concerned for Srila Prabhupada’s well being.

Srila Prabhupada has sent them to learn about the Samadhi ceremony from Srila Narayan Maharaja and has immediately responded by saying yes with a nod of his head when Tamal Krsna asks if he should call for Srila Narayan Maharaja to come. Srila Prabhupada has not responded to two requests for Krsna Das Babaji to come. Yet for some reason Tamal Krsna again brings up the idea of bringing Krsna Das for a third time. In response to this request Srila Prabhupada emphatically states, “Narayana Maharaja comes, then everything will be all right.” Srila Prabhupada makes this favorable statement after three inquiries by Tamal Krsna to bring Krsna Das and only one inquiry to bring Srila Narayan Maharaja. All of this is ample proof that Srila Prabhupada was placing his trust in Srila Narayan Maharaja not Krsna Das Babaji.

Moreover, Srila Prabhupada further reinforces his desire when Tamal Krsna says: “So if I call Narayana Maharaja, is there any need for Krsna Dasa to come?” Srila Prabhupada then replies: “He can arrange.” Tamal Krsna then wants to clarify whom Srila Prabhupada meant when he said “He” can arrange, so Tamal Krsna asks in a questioning voice “Narayan Maharaja”. We do not hear any response but based on Tamal Krsnas immediate response in his next statement we get the idea that Srila Prabhupada has nodded yes, indicating that it is Srila Narayan Maharaja to whom he was referring when he made the statement “he can arrange”.

Thus it is clear at this point in the conversation that it is Srila Prabhupada’s desire and choice that Srila Narayan Maharaja that he not only instruct his disciples about the Samadhi Ceremony but that Srila Narayan Maharaja comes to see him and that he also arranges the ceremony. Most importantly Srila Prabhupada has not yet heard from Tamal Krsna that Srila Narayan Maharaja actually wanted to participate in the ceremony. The statement by Tamal Krsna about Srila Narayana Maharaja’s interest in performing the Samadhi ceremony happens subsequently to Srila Prabhupada’s statement that “he can arrange”. Tamal Krsna asks about Krsna Das Babaji coming three times and mentions Srila Naryana Maharaja only once. However, Srila Prabhupada not only requests that Srila Narayan Maharaja should come, instead of Krsna Das Babaji, but that “he can arrange” the ceremony as well. It is at this point that Tamal Krsna responds by confirming the earnest request of Srila Prabhupada with the statement that: “Actually, he wanted to do that. He gave us instructions, but he also wanted to take part. So better I call Narayana Maharaja, then Krsna dasa.” Hence Tamal Krsna is now confirming by this statement that Srila Prabhupada’s desire to have Srila Narayan Maharaja not just teach them the ceremony but to actually come and do the Samadhi Ceremony is in fact Srila Narayan Maharaja’s desire as well.

At time 49:21 on the MP3 that has been provided with the paper by the GBC Srila Prabhupada again asks if Srila Narayan Maharaja is coming to see him. The conversation is as follows:

Srila Prabhupada: [Speaks to Tamal Krsna Maharaj:] Narayana Maharaja --he'll come tomorrow?
Tamal Krsna Maharaja: [First discusses with Bhakti-Caru Maharaja, then speaks as follows:] If we pick him up, he'll come tonight. If we go just now with the car, if Bhakti-Caru goes just now with the car, he may come tonight --Narayana Maharaja.
Srila Prabhupada: Hu. [Go on Kirtan]

Tamal Krsna has not yet arranged to bring Srila Narayan Maharaja to see Srila Prabhupada. So again Srila Prabhupada asks him, “Narayan Maharaja—he’ll come tomorrow”. Here we see that Srila Prabhupada has an earnest desire to see Srila Narayan Maharaja--a desire which the GBC is trying to tell you did not exist by willfully misleading the reader with false statements and innuendos that have nothing to do with the actual facts of the conversation.

Finally in the main conversation that is the topic of this paper there is a section in which Srila Prabhupada gives a direct order to his disciples to follow the instructions of Srila Narayan Maharaja in terms of performing the Samadhi Ceremony and also to “let him do” the ceremony.

Hari-Sauri: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. Tamala Krsna.
Prabhupäda: You have consulted with Narayana Maharaja?
Tamala Krsna: Yes. This morning Bhakti-caru Swami, Bhakti-prema Swami and Sridhara Swami went to see him, and Narayana Maharaja described the ceremony for the departure of a Vaishnava, great Vaishnava soul.
Narayana Maharaja: I have told them everything that is needed to be done. I told them, "Whenever you need me, I'll come here." I would do all, being personally present.

At this point in the conversation Srila Prabhupada has only asked his disciples if they have consulted with Srila Narayan Maharaja. This proves that he had instructed them to go in the first place to learn how to do the Samadhi Ceremony from Srila Narayan Maharaja. Therefore Srila Prabhupada is checking up on them to make sure that they have followed his instructions. This begs an important question: Srila Prabhupada has so many god brothers there in Vrndavan who are technically senior to Srila Narayan Maharaja but he has chosen Srila Narayan Maharaja to teach them the ceremony, why? The answer is because of the intimate siksha guru-siksha disciple relationship between Srila Prabhupada and Srila Narayan Maharaja which is made apparent in the body of the October 8th conversation that is presented in the GBC paper.

However, getting back to the immediate part of the discussion at hand, after Srila Prabhupada checks to see that his disciples have consulted with Srila Narayan Maharaja as he has asked them to, there is some discussion on the location of the Samadhi, covering the body with salt, and saving flowers for a Pushpa Samadhi in Mayapur. Then, the following conversation takes place wherein Srila Prabhupada orders Srila Narayana Maharaja to be present and instructs his disciples to let Srila Narayan Maharaja perform the ceremony because he knows:

Srila Prabhupada: Apni dariye theke
Srila Prabhupada: You be present there.
Srila Narayana Maharaja: Ami thakba okhane. Apanara amake khabar diben.
Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes, I will be there. You all should notify me.
Srila Narayana Maharaja: [Speaks to Tamal Krsna Maharaja in English] You should call me, and I will come.
Tamal Krsna Maharaja: Yes. He described the entire ceremony in detail, Srila Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada: So he knows. When you are ready, let him have it.
MY NOTE: I spent a considerable amount of time reviewing this statement on the sound file. I had the sound file cleared of some background noise and had the voices enhanced by a recording specialist. What I obtained from this was as follows:
Srila Prabhupada: Hmm so he knows-- when I reach the time.
Tamal Krsna: yes
Srila Prabhupada: “he will reach let him do” (Please click here to listen.)
This statement is referring back to his order to Srila Narayan Maharaja “you be present there” and Srila Narayan Maharaja’s response “yes I will be there, you should all notify me” in Bengali and then in English Srila Narayan Maharaja says “Your should call me, and I will come” So Srila Prabhupada is now recapping the conversation and giving the final instructions on the matter “So he knows—when I reach the time, he will reach---let him do” this is a clear instruction by Srila Prabhupada to his disciples that Srila Narayan Maharaja should perform “let him do” the Samadhi Ceremony. Even if you are to accept the version of the conversation as given by the GBC “So he knows. When you are ready let him have it.” It is again crystal clear that Srila Prabhupada is instructing them that Srila Narayan Maharaja “knows” so “when you are ready” or “when I reach the time” you should let Srila Narayan Maharaja “have it”, that is perform the Samadhi Ceremony.

Considering all of these points, it is very clear that Srila Prabhupada wanted Srila Narayan Maharaja to not only instruct his disciples about the Samadhi Ceremony, Srila Prabhupada actually wanted Srila Narayan Maharaja to participate in and to perform the Samadhi Ceremony. In fact it appears that this was Srila Prabhupada’s intention all along by sending his disciples to learn from Srila Narayan Maharaja in the first place. Knowing that his disciples were not capable of doing the Samadhi Ceremony themselves he sends them first to learn from Srila Narayan Maharaja and then instructs them to ‘let him do”. Furthermore, we have witnesses that saw Srila Narayan Maharaja in the room with Srila Prabhupada receiving further instructions about caring for his disciples and no doubt further instructions about performing the Samadhi Ceremony. As these conversations were mostly in Bengali and/or Hindi only parts of the conversations were available to the English speaking witnesses.

Therefore when the GBC makes the statement: “Thus, it appears that the idea of Narayana Maharaja’s participation in the ceremony originates from Narayana Maharaja himself, not from Srila Prabhupada” they are again willfully misleading the devotees who are reading their official GBC paper into wrongly believing that Srila Narayan Maharaja’s participation in the ceremony came from himself. Even though Srila Narayan Maharaja had earlier expressed his desire to participate in the Samadhi Ceremony, Srila Prabhupada was not informed of Srila Narayan Maharaja’s desire to participate in the ceremony until after he expressed his own earnest desire to have Srila Narayan Maharaja perform the ceremony by the statement “he can arrange”. Srila Prabhupada later confirms this by saying “So he knows when I reach the time he will reach let him do”

The GBC has demonstrated their willful intent to mislead the readers into believing that it was Srila Narayan Maharaja, who initiated the desire in Srila Prabhupada to have him do the Samadhi ceremony, by use of false accusations, insinuations, and innuendos. This false conception is manufactured by the GBC writers to make the reader believe that a great Mahabhagavat is ambitious and untruthful. Actually, it has been historically demonstrated that within the GBC body there have been many members who were most unfortunately decorated with the above mentioned qualities of material ambition and falsehood. In fact, as I have proven in this paper they are speaking falsely even now. The GBC’s woeful misbehavior in this regard has been a matter of past public record in their consistent abuse of power, fiscal malfeasance, exploitation of women and children, and inappropriate behavior with senior Vaishnava’s.

This ends part two of my refutation. In part three, I will further expose the hypocrisy of the statements the GBC has made in this paper about Srila Prabhupada’s request to preach together with his godbrothers and their complete and utter failure to follow this instruction.

Your Servant
B.V. Bhagavat Maharaja

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Srila Bhakti Vedanta Narayan Goswami Maharaja

O Siddhanta não tem nenhum valor na concepção dos demonios

"NITYA LILA PRAVISTA OM VISNUPADA ASTOTTARA SATA SRI SRIMAD BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI MAHARAJA PRABHUPADA KI JAY HO !! "

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Jaya Radhe, Hare Krsna
Todas às glórias a Sri Sri Guru & Gouranga !!
Todas às glórias ao Yuga Acarya Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Goswami Maharaja, Srila Gurudeva !
Todas as glórias ao Maha Patita Pavana Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja Prabhupada !

Meus dandavat pranamas a todos que acessam o blog, faço votos que todos estejam bem de saúde e felizes junto aos seus em consciência de Krsna.

Esta semana um fato desagradável e vergonhoso aconteceu, mas apesar disso vejo a necessidade de expor o acontecido para que todos tenham ciência da forma que é tratado o vaisnavismo hoje em dia por um grupo de pessoas.

Por muitas vezes recebi convites para participar do fórum Krishna katha, mantido por devotos ligados a Iskcon dos Gbcs. Por saber das polêmicas com relação a meu Gurudeva, preferi por vezes não participar do fórum, mas após algum tempo aceitei, acreditando que as pessoas tem boa vontade e desejo de realmente divulgar Hari katha e aceitei um convite a semana passada. Infelizmente eu estava enganado.

Comecei a ler os posts, um tanto deles falando da participação de uma pessoa ligada ao movimento (que prefiro nem perder tempo em identificar)num reality show, troca de famílias etc.

Procurei algum tópico interessante, então surgiu um post com explicações de Srila Bv. Swami Prabhupada a respeito de Guru Tattva e eu achei maravilhoso e quis comentar algo que havia estudado a respeito do tema, uma inútil tentativa de contribuir com algo aos devotos.

No texto em que citei passagens do livro a "Ciência da Alto Realização" de Srila Prabhupada Bv. Swami, continha também algumas citações de Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura, Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Dev Goswami Maharaja(a quem Srila Bv. Swami Maharaja Prabhupada tinha como siksa Guru), naturalmente assuntos ligados a Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswat Goswami Prabhupada, o Jagad Guru e também relacionados a Srila Bhakti Prajñana Kesava Goswami Maharaja, respectivamente o diksa e sanyasa Guru de Srila Prabhyupada Bv. Swami. Isso foi o suficiente para que a minha mensagem fosse censurada.

A resposta dada por Avyakta Rupa Das, que deve ser o responsável por este suposto site de "Krishna katha" é que eles não podem postar textos que falem de outras Mathas !! O meu comentário traria atritos !!

Para que os leitores possam ter conhecimento do texto irei postá-lo aqui no blog, acompanhado das mensagens do devoto que a censurou.

Este acontecimento deixa claro que a visão do vaisnavismo nesta missão é apresentada segundo um grupo de pessoas que manipula a informação para controlar as pessoas. O vaisnavismo Gaudiya é apresentado como sendo apenas da missão a que eles usam para satisfazer sua pratistha.

Gostaria de saber como fica a situação de Srila Rupa Goswamipada ? Será que ele era da Iskcon ?? Ele disse que apenas vaisnavas desta missão são fidedignos ?? O que fazer com os ensinamentos contidos no Sri Upadesamrta e tão belamente explicados por Srila Bv. Swami Prabhupada para que pudessemos ter acesso ao Gaudiya Vaisnavismo ?? Devemos ignorar o trabalho dele e aceitar que um grupo com mentalidade dominadora distorça e omita o Siddhanta ?

Então ... o que pensar de Srila Hari Das Thakura ?? Será que ele era desta missão ?? Não ... ele era muçulmano !! será que então Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu deu um exemplo errado ?? Não vi ele discriminar, pelo contrário, Mahaprabhu nomeou-o Nama Acarya !!

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami teve atitudes fortes com relação aos seus irmãos que eram contrários a pregação do Gaudiya Vaisnavismo no Ocidente, com relação a estes devotos ele aconselhava os seus discípulos a não se associarem. Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu e Nityananda Prabhu davam associação a todas as pessoas e Srila Prabhupada Bv. Swami Maharaja seguia este humor. Ele deu associação até para pessoas que tinham esta mentalidade absurda, pré-kanistha, e que tentam trazer o siddhanta Gaudiya Vaisnava ao seu padrão caído, tratando as missões e os Acaryas Uttama Bhagavatas verdadeiros como times ou torcidas de futebol, " Ora ... este não é do meu time... não importa o que ele ensina, se é fidedigno ou não, mas se eu falar a respeito dele (ou deles) poderei sair perdendo meus torcedores..."

Isso é vaisnava aparadha.

Um vaisnava Uttama Adhikari é algo raro, não se encontra aos montes nas missões. Mesmo dentre os discípulos de Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswat Prabhupada, ocorreram discussões por causas banais enquanto ele ainda realizava seus passatempos no planeta, e entre aqueles devotos muitos dos mais exaltados vaisnavas Gaudiyas estavam presentes, Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Dev Goswmai Maharaja, Srila Bhakti Prajñana Kesava Goswami, Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Goswami, Srila Bhakti vaibhava Puri Goswami e outros. Acredito que na história das missões vaisnavas, foi a época em que os associados mais íntimos de Mahaprabhu estavam em maior parte no planeta.

Espero que as pessoas que participam do fórum, tenham verdadeiro interesse em aprender a respeito da história do Gaudiya vaisnavismo, tenham verdadeiro interesse em sadhu sanga, pois assim pela misericórdia sem causa de Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada vão arrancar e jogar longe tudo o que tapar sua visão e que impossibilita uma boa associação, o prazer de estar se associando com vaisnavas elevados independente da missão a que eles estejam servindo.

Para concluir, mais uma vez sugiro uma mudança no nome do fórum para "Gbc katha" ou "Krishna katha segundo a opinião dos gbcs". Assim outras pessoas que sentiram a pureza da pregação de Srila Prabhupada Bv. Swami, não caiam no engano de pensar que o que é apresentado ali é a mesma cois que ele, Srila Prabhupada fazia.

Alguém pode dizer, "Oh prabhu, você está ofendendo !! Isso é vaisnava aparadha !!"
Hmm ... pode ser, não sou devoto exemplar. Nunca disse que era, mas garanto que sou sincero no que faço e um dia pela misericórdia de Srila Gurudeva e vaisnavas eu vou vencer todo o processo de lapidação do espírito e ser qualificado a ser chamdo de discípulo de Srila Bv. Narayan Goswami Maharaja, o Yuga Acarya.

Por hora, prefiro deixar de lado esta política e manipulação de devotos que tem boa vontade, prefiro buscar seguir meu Gurudeva Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Goswami Maharaja; meu Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja; meu siksa Guru, Bv. Vana Maharaja os vaisnavas elevados do Guru Parampara, os shastras (o Bhagavad Gita Como Ele é ... e não como estas pessoas de mentalidade tacanha desejam que ele fosse). Pedir as bençãos de Sri Krsna Caitanya, Prabhu Nityananda, Srila Advaita, Sri Gadhadara Pandita, Srivasa Acarya e todos os associados de Sri Gouranga Mahaprabhu e com amor e afeição fazer kirtan ... HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE HARE RAMA HARE RAMA RAMA RAMA HARE HARE.

Sem mais,
seu servo caído
Dasa anudasa
Adhoksaja Das

Dandavat pranamas
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Segue abaixo o texto que enviei ao fórum e a resposta enviada para que cada um leia e tire suas conclusões se houve algum tipo de ofensa ou motivos para a censura.

"Jaya Radhe, Hare Krsna
Tds as glórias a Sri Sri Guru & Gouranga

Caros prabhus e didis,
Por favor aceitem meus respeitosos dandavat pranamas, faço votos que tds estejam bem e felizes em consciência de Krsna.

Guru Tattva é um assunto que sempre me animo em estudar.
No livro "A CIÊNCIA DA ALTO REALIZAÇÃO" de nosso amado Srila Bv. Swami Maharaja, nosso Srila Prabhupada existe um capítulo que trata maravilhosamente deste assunto. Ele nos explica a importância de se aceitar um Guru fidedigno, isso tbm aparece no significado do quinto sloka do "SRI UPADESAMRTA - O NÉCTAR DA ISNTRUÇÃO" de Srila Rupa Goswamipada, comentado por Srila Bv. Swami Prabhupada. Lá no final do significado ele cita Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura que da a orientação de que devemos ter o cuidado de aceitar um Guru "UTTAMA ADHIKARI", ou seja um Guru de primeira classe, porque ele tem realização dos sastras, está vinculado a sucessão discípular,livre de influências dos modos da natureza material e principalmente está absorto em serviço constante e ininterrupto a Sri Sri Radha Krsna Yugala. O serviço é totalmente desprovido de qquer interesse que ñ seja a felicidade de Sri Krsna. Esta é a definição de Uttama Bhakti dada por Thakura Bhaktivinoda, o sétimo Goswami.

No significado ainda está dito que o devoto Madhyama Adhikari poderá até aceitar discípulos, no entanto os discípulos estarão no mesmo nível dele e deverão ambos saberem que tal orientação ñ é suficiente.

O Guru Uttama Adhikari, a exemplo do próprio Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Maharaja Prabhupada apresenta a filosofia como ela é. O Srimad Bhagavad Gita comentado por Srila Prabhupada Bv. Swami recebeu o título de " O Bhagavad Gita Como Ele É " ... para que as pessoas saibam a orientação da sampradaya, vinda de Krsna. A filosofia é como ela é e ñ como eu gostaria que fosse. Srila Prabhupada explica ainda no livro "A CIÊNCIA DA ALTO REALIZAÇÃO" que o Guru fidedigno é como um carteiro, ele entrega a mensagem inadulterada.

Talvez possa surgir na cabeça de alguns devotos a questão, então porque existem tantos comentários do Bhagavad Gita e até mesmo de outros livros sagrados ? Após um estudo destes livros e a associação com alguns sadhus vaisnavas, compreendi que todos os Gurus realmente Uttama Bhagavatas, pregam a mesma coisa, o mesmo Tattva da Sampradaya, o que diferência os comentários é o talento que cada um possui. Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Dev Goswami Maharaja era considerado por Srila Bv. SWami Prabhupada como seu siksa Guru, Srila Sridhara Maharaja (que é o Acarya fundador da Sri Caitanya Saraswat Matyh, irmão espiritual de Srila Bv. Swami Prabhupada) escrevia textos doces e poéticos, cativante.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada é magnificamente didático, direto. A tarefa dele foi começar o movimento no ocidente com todas as condições contrárias a consciência de Krsna, e ele a realizaou de forma divina, pois é um Uttama Bhagavata, externamente agia como um sanyasi, um monge e internamente estava absorto no seva a seu Guru Mahara Jagad Guru Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswat Goswami Prabhupada, auxiliando-o no seva a Sri Radha e Krsna em Goloka Vrndavana. Meu Gurudeva Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Goswami Maharaja diz que qdo Srila Prabhupada veio ao Ocidente ele veio com Srila Rupa Goswamipada, o próprio Srila Bv. SWami Maharaja conta isso num epísódio em que ainda estava no Templo de Sri Sri Radha Damodara e Rupa Goswami apareceu para ele num sonho dizendo que ele ñ devia temer a viagem pois ele estaria o acompanhando.

Meu Gurudeva Srila Bv. Narayan Goswami Maharaja diz que Srila Prabhupada Bv. Swami Maharaja é um associado íntimo de Rupa Goswamipada, ele diz que o que Rupa Goswami escreve em um sloka, Srila Prabhupada teve o trabalho de escrever em dez páginas para que nós aqui no lado Ocidental que ñ havíamos tido contato com esta tradição vaisnava pudessemos compreender melhor e seguirmos esta filosofia. Srila Rupa Goswami na Govinda Lila em Vrndavana Dhama era Rupa Manjari, para se associar com uma manjari, apenas é possível tendo um siddha deha na mesma forma, ou seja ... nem mesmo como uma gopi como as demais descritas nos passatempos de Krsna, mas sim uma Manjari, serva íntima de Srimate Radharani e Sri Goulananda !!

Dai podemos ter um pequeno vislumbre de quem é Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada e de como são elevados os Uttama Adhikaris e do pq devemos ter o cuidado de nos abrigarmos aos pés de lótus de tais Gurus fidedignos. O Guru Uttama Adhikari não prega filosofias diferentes do que todo o Guru Parampara prega, se o Caitanya Caritamrta diz que a "JIVERA SVARUPA HAYA KRSNERA NITYA DASA ... JIVERA TATASTHA SHAKTI BEDHA AABHEDA PRAKASA", que a origem da Jiva é a Tatastha shakti, a potência marginal de Krsna é isso que ele ensina. Se a jiva viesse de Goloka ela ñ caíria, ñ se afetaria pelos modos da natureza material, tds nós seríamos Uttama Bhagavatas.

Guru Uttama adhikari está todo o tempo ocupado em seva a Sri Sri Guru & Gouranga, ao seva imotivado a Sri Sri Radha Krsna, ele é capaz de inspirar os discípulos a realizar este seva e os entusiasma no cantar de Hari Nama.

Guru Uttama adhikari, fidedigno, ñ impede a associação de seus discípulos com outros vaisnavas avançados.

Guru Uttama adhikari, glorifica e honra tda a Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya, independente das missões que façam parte desta linha, pq ele tem a compreensão de somos da mesma árvore genealógica de Rupa Goswamipada, de Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Ele honra o Guru, o Parama Guru, o siksa Guru e o sanyasi Guru, e até o sisya discípulo, como fez Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

Para concluir, me chamou a atenção um trecho do texto, em que se da orientação de que os devotos sérios devem analisar o Guru Parampara e desta forma ñ seremos enganados por "patifes" como diz Srila Bv. Swami Maharaja, nosso Srila Prabhupada. Todo devoto sério tem o direito de observar e indagar respeitosamente dos Gurus a respeito de Guru Tattva e assuntos ligados a outros Tattvas e a consciência de Krsna, isso é explicado no Bhagavad Gita, o sastra da evidências. É necessário que haja interesse, estudo, livre de opiniões alheias a respeito do que é Sampradaya, o que são as missõs da sampradaya, o que são apasampradayas, o que é Harinama e Diksa e qual sua importância para os que decidem seguir correndo atrás de Syamasundara e de Vrsnabhanu nandini para servi-Los, quem é Gouranga Mahaprabhu, como chegamos até Eles, quem somos, de onde viemos, para onde vamos, quem é Deus e qual nosso relacionamento com eles... neste ponto já vamos ver que existem três tipos de Vaisnavas, Kanistha, Madhyama e Uttama.

Uttama Bhagavata, devoto puro, ele ñ tem a mesma natureza que nós. Ele desce de Golokavrndavan, é um associado de Sri Sri Radha Krsna que vem até aqui para nos dar a oportunidade de voltar para casa, ir de volta ao Supremo, como dizia Srila Bv. Swami, nosso amado Srila Prabhupada. Tal devoto é raro. devemos ter atenção a isso e reconhecer a importância de receber harinama e diksa deste devoto. Estar sob a anugatya dele. E ele pode vir de qquer missão, inclusive de alguma que ñ seja a que servimos, portanto o respeito e atenção, associação com o sadhu, sadhu sanga é algo positivo atds que desejam alcançar a meta última da vida, que é Krsna Prema.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, agradeço ao Senhor pela sua imensa misericórdia em vir ao Ocidente, trazer este oceano de néctar que é a cosnciência de Krsna para almas caídas como eu, que ainda ñ tem o devido apego pelo cantar dos Santos Nomes, mas que tem o desejo sincero em alcançar o seva aos servos de Srimate Radhika.

Peço as benção de meu Gurudeva Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayan Goswami Maharaja para que minhas palavras sejam compreendidas na melhor forma por tds, que nunca me falte sadhu sanga e que jamais, em momento algum na minha existência seja agradável ou desagradável eu me esqueça de meu Gurudeva e de meus mantras.

OM VISNUPADA PARAMAHANSA PARIVRAJALACARYA ASTOTTARA SATA SRI SRIMAD BV. NARAYAN GOSWAMI MAHARAJA KI JAY HO !
NITYA LILA PRAVISTA OM VISNUPADA ASTOTTARA SATA SRI SRIMAD BV. SWAMI MAHARAJA PRABHUPADA KI JAY HO !!

GOURA PREMANANDE !!
HARI HARI BOL"
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"Hare Krishna, Prabhu Adhoksaja!
Jaya Sri Sri Guru & Gouranga.
Dandavats!

Muito obrigado por participar do grupo Krishna katha.

Por favor me perdoe mas no grupo Krishna katha não podemos postar mensagens com citações a outras Mathas no momento.

Espero que entenda.

s.svo avyakta rupa das"